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Gloria tune

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Tue, 02/16/2010 - 10:18 — cfenner

I noticed as I was going through the Hymnary training hymnal that all instances of "Angels We Have Heard on High" are paired with the GLORIA tune bearing the incipit 3335543 3235321. Actually, there is another variant of GLORIA (which is the original French version, I think), that begins 333355431 332335543. This version appears in Southern Baptist hymnals, for example. I still have my training wheels on, so if someone else wants to add this other tune as an authority that would be great, or I can do it when my wheels are off.

I suppose it would be an enormous task to check every instance of "Angels we have heard on high" to match with the appropriate tune, but if we can at least have both versions in the authority records then someone can make a switch whenever it is necessary. The other issue might be in determining how to name each authority so they can be appropriately differentiated.


Comments

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 01:09 — Haruo

That's what I've always called the "original" (pre-Barnes?) melody line of what as arranged by Barnes came to be called GLORIA. "Iris" was, as I understand it, the name of the periodical in which James Montgomery originally published his poem "Angels from the realms of glory", which the 1906 English Hymnal paired with this French carol tune (the most frequent French first line being "Les anges dans nos campagnes"). Of course, in the USA the Montgomery text is now inextricably linked with REGENT SQUARE, but this is not universally true abroad; I believe a fair number of British collections continue to pair the Montgomery text with IRIS / GLORIA, and in the 1954 Japanese Sambika they use the French church tune called GRAFTON. There are a number of quite divergent English texts based more or less loosely on the (folk-processed, hence not uniform) French folk carol text; Woodward's "Shepherds in our fields abiding" is probably the most noteworthy apart from "Angels we have heard on high", but the 1930 American Oxford Hymnal, I think, has a notable alternative version.

Thu, 02/18/2010 - 12:00 — cfenner

OK, I see IRIS in the Hymnary database. In some hymnals (ex: 1991 Baptist) it is called GLORIA and it is erroneously paired with the other tune authority in the Hymnary, so someone will definitely need to recheck many or all of the instances of GLORIA. I suppose I could add this to my list of things I would like to do in the Hymnary.

Would it be worthwhile to alter the IRIS authority to say "IRIS (GLORIA)" or create some other workaround so contributors can find IRIS when their hymnal says GLORIA?

Thu, 02/18/2010 - 12:34 — lookitup

You could certainly add a note to the authority record with this information, and a link to Gloria if appropriate, and I think it would be a very worthwhile task to sort out the two tunes. If this is something you want to tackle once the practice hymnal is done, you are most welcome to do so. Otherwise, I can put it on my list. Let me know how you want to proceed. Tina

Sat, 02/20/2010 - 15:20 — cfenner

If someone else is willing to do it, I will pass the buck. I would rather work with texts.
Thanks!

Sat, 02/20/2010 - 15:14 — lookitup

I will put it on my to-do list. I want to finish the Pilgrim Hymnal first, and address some other issues as well, but I might sic my student on it to get a head start.

Thu, 02/18/2010 - 13:43 — hplantin

Using GLORIA in the name is a good idea. I'm sure most editors will start out by searching for GLORIA when linking up a tune like that, so having it come up in searches would be helpful.

Or is it easier just to type in a few notes of the melody and search for it that way?

Tina, what do you think about adding an alternate tune name in parentheses to the title for a tune like IRIS?

---------------
Harry Plantinga
CCEL Director

Thu, 02/18/2010 - 14:41 — lookitup

I would be far more inclined to put a "see also" link in each authority record to alert people to the related tune. We add parentheses when we have tunes of the same name but different composers, but I am hesitant to do that with two different tunes, however similar or related. Now if a hymnal has actually assigned the name GLORIA to IRIS, then that will be entered in the record, and IRIS will then come up with a search for the name GLORIA. But until then, I would try to maintain separate identities. Tina

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 01:23 — Haruo

I'm not sure I would call GLORIA and IRIS "different tunes", even though there is a fair amount of difference between their melody lines as usually printed. There are also two quite differently contoured, at least in part, tunes (or versions of a tune) out there that go as ST. THEODULPH or VALET WILL ICH DIR GEBEN depending on the hymnal. In my online Esperanto hymnal I called one type ST. THEODULPH and the other VALET WILL ICH DIR GEBEN (mainly, I think, because I first met the latter version in a Lutheran hymnal that called it that, whereas I was raised on the other version and had always called it ST. THEODULPH. I even had a page in my hymnal on the tune variants: here. The background music at that page (MIDI) presents, I think, five variants of the tune one after another; the page also has links to separate MIDI files of each variant.

I am not sure there is any objective standard by which to determine where to draw the line.

Mon, 03/08/2010 - 16:45 — lookitup

I separated the conjoined twins, as it were, with notes in each authority record. I invite you to add information as can be documented. It looks like the Baptists are partial to IRIS as was pointed out earlier. Tina

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